Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Your Best you is intended for mature audiences. This episode contains discussions about substance use, challenges, loss, and recovery. Viewer and listener discretion is advised.
Hey there, everybody, and thank you very much for tuning in to youo Best you. Real Conversations on mental wellness, brought to you by MHA of Dutchess county and brought to you in part by the Northern and Southern Dutchess Community Coalitions. We got ourselves a panel today, and this is a big month, so that's why we need multiple people in here to be able to discuss on these topics. So if you didn't know about this, this week, the week that this episode is releasing is National Drug and Alcohol Facts Week. Besides that March of Sobriety Awareness Month, and a day that just passed was Black Balloon Day, March 6th. Celebrating and remembering those lost from overdose. Overdose. Specifically opioids. See, I wanted to combine the two words. So with us today, we have leaders from the addiction services team here at mha. We have with us Brittany Edinger, Joey Jodi Caradero, and Curtis Potter. Guys, how are you?
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Good. How are you doing?
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Good. We were supposed to have Christy Quinn as well, but unfortunately she was sick today. Hopefully we'll be able to have Christy on the show shortly. So don't normally interview a whole panel, so want to make sure everybody gets their piece in. Figure just go down the line, talk about which house you're in and specific programs that you guys are utilizing at your house. Brittany, since you're right next to me, want to start?
[00:01:24] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: So I'm Brittany. I run Vulture House, which is the all men's program. We're right in heart of city, Poughkeepsie.
So, you know, we're kind of. We're lucky in that. In that there's a lot of things in walking distance for our guys. So a lot of those meetings. Sober supports, different sober groups, lots of things to keep them active. You know, Vassar College is real close, which is, like, great. You know, they can just walk around, like, beautiful grounds. We have the walkway of the Hudson. I mean, there's just, like, so many things, like, within distance. So I really encourage that a lot with. With the guys in house.
Yeah. So it's. It's nice. We get to do a whole bunch of different things.
I try and bring in programs into the house that maybe wouldn't consider as, like, normal part of recovery. What people really think is standard recovery things. Right. So we have, like, the. The kind of the ground rules of things we have to offer. You know, individual counseling, group counseling, certain life skills, nursing groups, things like that. But I really Try and bring in a lot of other things. We do animal assisted therapy, so animal assisted interventions a lot, which is really cool.
It's scientifically proven, lots of studies behind it. So it's a lot more than just, you know, play with puppies and animals.
[00:02:28] Speaker C: It's.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: There's actual benefits to it. Yeah, we do, as funny as it sounds, we do crafting groups. The guys really love them. They're cool. I try and do, you know, think outside the box. We've done things like make your own recovery coin, things like that.
We try and do outings. I work a lot with the community and doing that. So, you know, doing things like recording, going to the pickle fest, you know, but it's just ways to kind of get people back out into the community doing sober events and seeing how life is, that life can still be enjoyable without substance use. So it's that reintegration part that's really what we, you know, we focus on. So we try and throw in a little bit of things like that. So it's pretty cool. I've been there three years now, so.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: Three years now. Very good. Yeah. This isn't the first time that we've talked about this. You know, you were on the Vital Women podcast, which I also produce. We've talked about it individually as well. So really appreciate you coming in here and getting, giving your piece. Curtis, you want to talk about your house and your programs?
[00:03:17] Speaker D: I'm Curtis, I'm the director over at Dallin House. It's located in Akansak, over in the Red Oaks Mills area. It is a 12 bed co ed facility. So sometimes in a coed facility could present a challenge. You know, you got mixing integrating the guys with the girls.
We, we've had our barriers with that, but for the most part it runs pretty smooth.
In addition to, you know, the programs that Brittany mentioned, individual group therapy, things like that, we really big on the reintegration piece. So school and employment, those are the things that we try to hone in on the most. We work really close with, you know, partner agencies, DC Works, Dutch community college, things like that. Yeah. You know, and just trying to get them re established, especially with the cuts and you know, funding barriers that we're faced with now.
You know, we do have resources set up through MHA for housing, transitional components, things like that, but we don't want to put all our eggs in one basket. So we try to get them ready to be independent and if the their hand calls for it to be able to reintegrate on their own, seeking Independent departments, you know, so we're big on them saving money and just get back out into the workforce we don't have because of the location. And we're not really on a direct bus line. Sometimes transportation, getting them to and from can be a challenge. We make do with it.
You know, we are also looking to like, re. Establish relationships with people to be able to come into the facility to conduct like self help groups and stuff like right within, you know. So again, we try to utilize what resources we do have and just getting them prepared and stabilized so that they can get back out there and make something of themselves.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that sounds great. And I understand what you're saying about Red Oaks Mill, like, great area, done a lot of work out there. But as I said, it's not like where Brittany is, where all the things are literally right there. So I can understand the challenge that that brings. But also seem like the Red Oaks Mill area is such a nice area to probably find a sense of Zen perhaps. So I can only imagine that in your house. So, Jody, would you like to talk about your house now? You're over at Florence Manor.
[00:05:12] Speaker C: So I'm Jody. I am the director of Florence Manor, which is the 24 bed female facility.
So we're right in the border of Hyde park and Poughkeepsie. So it's a pretty good area.
We do have a bus line that is close to us, but it does present, you know, some barriers sometimes too, because it's the timing and stuff like that as far as, like when the bus is available and you know, when the ladies need to go out.
Our program is very similar to Brittany and Curtis, but we do try to work with a focus that women face.
I feel like they. They can face some barriers that are very challenging to get into treatment initially anyway, and then being in treatment, you know, so really just working on trying to build them back up again and you know, a lot of reunification with children, working with family courts and stuff like that. So we really, we try to promote independence and you know, really just working on themselves and gaining their confidence back and things like that. So yeah, it's a, it's a. It's a great program. It is difficult, but yeah, it's. We gotta.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: We got a good team going.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: No, absolutely. And Jody, how long have you been there with. With Florence Manor?
[00:06:29] Speaker C: So I've been with Florence Manor for two years now.
I was over at Dowling House for eight years.
[00:06:34] Speaker D: Gotcha.
[00:06:35] Speaker C: So I've been with the agency for. This is going on my 11th year.
[00:06:39] Speaker D: 11th year.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Very, very good. And Curtis, I don't think I asked you yet, how many years have you been with Dowling House?
[00:06:44] Speaker D: So I've been at Dallin for two years. I ran the crisis center for a year prior to that, and then I was at Bolger a year before that. So this is actually my third facility.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Gotcha. So, yeah. So everybody's been rotating around and seen a little bit of each person. Brittany, you said three years, right? With this house where you had other houses or buildings prior.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: So I worked for a different company.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Gotcha program.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: I was the senior case at the Dutchess County Stabilization Center.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Yes. Okay.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: I just came right into the position at Bulger, so I've been at the same house with MHA the whole time, so.
[00:07:14] Speaker D: Lovely.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: That was my entry, and I've just been there since.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: There you go. Fantastic. So it definitely just goes to show that everybody's got plenty of experience here one way or another.
Jody, something that we were talking about before we got onto the mic was the mentorship programs that you guys are trying to get going with your house, and I'm sure that's going to be across your houses as well. Jody, since we were talking about it first before everybody got here, if you want to get into that first, what you guys are hoping to try to do with that mentor program.
[00:07:38] Speaker C: Sure. So the plan for that is to get the newer clients connected with a senior client and, you know, someone who's displayed great behaviors and, you know, really working on. Really working a strong program for themselves.
We think it's a. It'll be really, really helpful for the transition for the newer clients to have some sort of guidance when they're coming in. Sometimes it's difficult to only go to staff, so just having someone who can, you know, be there with them, you know, either after hours or, you know, someone who's been through the program themselves and, you know, are doing well also, too. We want to get them connected with outside resources, really, just to kind of make themselves feel good. So we are working with local barbers and. And for, like, the men to get haircuts within their first week, for the ladies to get trims and, you know, just getting them connected with personal hygiene products that maybe, you know, they. They didn't have and, you know, just some fun, like MHA water bottle and,
[00:08:43] Speaker A: you know, there you go.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Get that swag going, you know, and like, just little things that. To try and make them feel as comfortable as possible to, you know, get started on reintegrating back into the community.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: So that's Great. Thank you very much for that overview on that. Curtis, I want to put it over towards you now.
You have the co ed facility currently, you know, Jody has all women, Brittany has all men. But here you are in a facility that's co ed. What does that look like when you guys are trying to do some kind of mentorship or any kind of programs? You said that it does bring its challenges in. What does that necessarily look like?
Does it help with the synergy take away or is it kind of neutral?
[00:09:21] Speaker D: No, I mean, I definitely feel it helps. You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be like a guy with a guy and a girl with a girl kind of thing, because at the end of the day, they all live in the same environment, you know.
But I think, you know, with the transition piece, especially the residents that we get, they're normally coming from a structured like inpatient facility. So now you're back out into society. Some of them haven't been out on the real world per se for five, six, seven months.
It could be a little shell shot for them. So having someone that, you know, appear there, that they could, you know, model behind, follow behind, to kind of teach them the way and they can feel comfortable with. And I find like doing that peer to peer versus staff to peer, it has a bigger impact. For whatever reason, they tend to create this barrier, almost like it's staff is against them sometimes. So I think that filter definitely goes a long way, whether it's all male, all female or coed. Facility, facility, you know, that common ground they're all working towards. I think it's important to have that peace in place.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. I hear what you're saying. Like there's a lot of times when anybody is in a sense of needing help, there's a resistance to authority, regardless of the situation. So, yeah, the staff is just seen as authority and seen as the them, you know, and they're not us, they're not anything like that. So being able to have the peers in that regard, that's great to be able to hear. Now, Brittany, I know since we've had other discussions about this, one thing that's interesting about your care is that you've struggled with substance use in your own personal life.
How do you feel like that is different compared to some other programs, some other people at times when you are working with the men at the Bolger house, how does that change the approach? The fact that you were in their shoes at one point?
[00:11:00] Speaker B: So, okay, so that could be, as we all know, an entire thing on Its own. But the short answer to it is like, it's kind of, I've been there, I've done that. Yeah, My recovery story is a little bit different.
I grew up in Colorado and my, you know, getting sober story, we didn't have detox rehab programs, we didn't have reintegration residentials like we have here. So it was kind of like this odd, like got locked in a basement for a week and was like forced to detox while my friend's parents, like took care of me to, you know, to make sure I was, you know, okay.
But still having that experience, you know, having, you know, use various different substances and knowing what it's like to feel so isolated when you're trying to get your life together.
So I try and use that and I, you know, obviously it's not something I, you know, run around to the clients, you know, oh, guess what this is. Right. So the, you know, self disclosure is a very, you know, very minute thing. But I do take the mentality and all the things I went through into how I structure the house. So oasis, who is our, you know, our licensing overshoot, whatever we want to call them. You know, there's. There's rules and things that we have to follow. There's policies and procedures and things. Right. So we have that and it's a really nice outline of all the things. Now what I like to do is within that is where can I get creative?
So that's when I use. Okay, when I was trying to get my life back on track and trying, what did I need that I wasn't given?
What, what was I looking for that I could not find to save my life at that point in time? And then I try and use that to incorporate what works best. So that's where I start coming in with. I mean, we have an edge. A wonderful education vocational counselor. So she comes in and does a lot of stuff with them directly linked to school and work. But in addition to that, I work with like Boces and Boces will come in and do in services, talking about just what services they have to offer and even just things like that. Like, it might not necessarily mean the client needs it in that moment, but that might be something they need down the road.
You know, maybe it piques the interest that they want to go back to school and get their GED or whatever the case may be. I have financial advisors that come in and talk to them about basic finance stuff. Budget.
We've done resume building, we've done like cooking, which is great, which I'VE had like, you know, people who are like CIA trained chefs.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: We coordinate things like that.
So a lot of those, like, human experiences. Right. Because there's so many I. Our clients are going to outpatient during the day, and then they're coming back to us to have more treatment. Right. So it's kind of like, well, if they're already doing X, Y and Z and outpatient, why am I going to repeat it in house?
So I kind of try and work with outpatient, see what outpatient is doing for their groups, for their individual, for their in services. And I take those out of what we do at Ultra then, because they're already getting it outpatient, why am I going to duplicate? Let's find something else.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: So then I kind of use that and sometimes, you know, just basic, like, health and wellness things. You'd be surprised how many people don't know how to properly wash clothes. And I say that in the sense that, like, you know, people just maybe get this idea that you just throw it in the washer and turn it on. Call it a day when you need to be mindful of, like, if you were sick, you need to be washing that on, you know, high heat, drying it on high heat, you know, things like that. So, like, hygiene things, little things like that, you know, using the proper soap and shampoo and things like that for your hair. And it's, I think, a lot of things like that that we take for granted that we are just like, we wake up maybe and we just go about our day. And we know how to do laundry and we know how to wash dishes, and we know how to do this and like that. But these are things that, you know, we have clients who are coming from maybe extensive, you know, unhoused situations, incarceration, extensive treatment histories. And these are things that have either just always been done for them or they just didn't have access to them. So it's our job to kind of start building them from the ground up on that. And that's where we get into that. Like, I can't tell you how many times I've seen somebody's chore in our house, for example, be to do the dishes. And you watch them put, like two little drops of soap on one sponge, and they try and clean, you know, six pots and pans with two drops of soap. Like, that's. That's not enough soap, you know, and it. But. But it gets into that, like, okay, well, if somebody didn't teach them and they didn't know. So what we Turn that. We flipped. I call it flipping the script. That's what I call everything. Anything that's like, maybe people would feel like we're coming at them and we're making fun of them or we're doing this. I always say, no, no, no, we're flipping the script. I want you to be able to learn and do better, you know, so we start incorporating things like that. Folding fitted sheets.
That was like. You would have thought that I was doing witchcraft in the house when I showed people how to fold a fitted sheet.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: I'll admit I'm not even good at that either.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: So, you know, but. But you know what I'm saying, It's just like, you know, there's so many of these little things that I think we. We take for granted.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: And those are the things that don't get addressed. We're talking about. Right. Like relapse prevention and overdose prevention and trigger warnings. And that's all, you know, and trigger, you know, acknowledgment, how to work through coping skills. And that's great.
[00:15:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: But what about all these other things that they need to. To reintegrate? A lot of people don't, like, we're getting them ready to get into apartments,
[00:15:41] Speaker A: but they don't know how to live on their own.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: You know, the question is, how do I live on my own? Like, what do I do? How do I. Where do I find these things? So that's what I. From my experience, because those are the things that I never had. So that's really where I get back into that. And all the rest comes later. We can all do the groups. We can all do stuff. We work with outpatient. We do this, and it's great. Well, we got to get back to basics. Basics is the foundation. Without the foundation, you have nothing else.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Beautifully said. Beautifully said. And one of the things that I noticed with you were saying is like, just putting the couple of dots of soap on the sponge. Some people might look at it as they don't know, or some other people might come from a point of scarcity, too. There's always that, too, where people are like, I've never been able to put more than two dots of soap because I've needed to ration. I haven't had the ability to have
[00:16:25] Speaker B: more water in the soap bottle last longer.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: So that's huge.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that. That's absolutely part of it as well.
So that's when. If we see things like that, and I'll tell you this, we. We see all these things all the time.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: I really work with my staff and even just myself to, like, make sure we take it as a private moment with the client. Like, pull them aside, hey, you know, not in trouble, nothing's wrong. But, hey, I noticed you were doing blah, blah, blah, is there a reason?
And hey, and then, you know, get that dialogue going. And also the really nice thing about that is that you start building rapport with the client more with. Through that, you're showing them that you care, even about the little things. And then you're educating them on either the better way to do it, the safer way to do it, the more effective way to do it, whatever it may be. And now, you know, such a tiny little thing. It's not them being in trouble. It's not a group. It's not individual. It's not these very clinical things. It's a human moment. And using that human moment just, like, makes such, like, a world of difference. And, like, I just. I love it. And, like, it builds so much on that. Like, those are my favorite moments is, like, those little things. I know it sounds weird, but, like, those, like, my favorite moments is like, that makes sense. Little human experience.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Absolutely makes sense. And it is the little things, and it's the misconceptions, and it's the flipping the script, as you said. Curtis, you said before, like, how certain people come into the programs and they're shell shocked by whether they're coming from an inpatient to an outpatient to these houses or whatever it might be. I want to open it up to both of you guys right now. What are some of the things that you're finding that people have to either relearn or learn? Kind of similar in the sense of what Brittany was saying. Does anybody want to start with that?
[00:17:54] Speaker D: I'm shocked and amazed, too, at the amount of little things that they don't know.
I have two residents that are over age 60 that don't have a high school diploma or GED that we have gotten back into taking classes so that they can sit for the test.
You know, basic life skills. I had a guy not too long ago while my cook was out, and one of the residents volunteered to cook.
So I says, all right, we'll do something simple like spaghetti. Showed him how to brown the meat. Everything I'm saying, you know, okay, so now all you got to do is boil the water, your sauce is done, put the noodles in there. He puts a big old pot of water on the stove and puts the noodles in without boiling the water.
You know, 10 minutes later, I go and didn't strain it, you know, was taking the noodles out. He was going to serve this. I don't know what you call it. It wasn't spaghetti. It was wet noodles and sauce, though.
[00:18:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:40] Speaker D: And, you know, I chuckled to myself, but at the same time I'm like, wow, he really doesn't know.
So when I see little things like that, it, you know, I can't take for granted. You know, I started cooking at 12 years old. Like, I just. My mom was never around, so I had no choice but to learn. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that everyone else had the same opportunity. And, you know, when you see little things like that, you know, it's kind of a wake up call to really understand. Like, you know, we say that this is person centered treatment. That's an example of why we have to be person centered, because not everyone's going to be on the same page and on the same level. And so you got to be able to meet them where they're at at the moment.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: No, that's fascinating.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: No, I was gonna say. And that just, like, goes to show though, too. Like, he wanted to, like, he wanted to try. He was, he was like, I'm gonna step up, you know, I'm. I'm gonna try and help. Even though he had no idea. Maybe he didn't know. He didn't know.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: That takes bravery too, you know, because,
[00:19:28] Speaker B: like, but like, that's the thing. Like, you see the good in our clients that they're trying.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: So sometimes, you know, you know, it's like when your kids do something and you're like a problem. Oh, yeah, that's so great you tried. But let me, Let me help you. But, yeah, you know, I think that that's like, you know, like you said, that's where we get like the person centered sometimes, you know, we don't maybe realize until after the fact that it's
[00:19:47] Speaker A: like, oh, okay, like, amen to that.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: Like, we'll work with that too.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: Jodi, I want to hear your response in a second. I'm just curious with that proud parent moment. Is everybody here a parent on this board?
[00:19:55] Speaker D: I'm a grandparent.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Grandparent. Okay, gotcha.
[00:19:58] Speaker D: I'm a pop up, Pop up.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: There you go. I love that you have a daughter, right? Yep. Do you have children of your own?
[00:20:04] Speaker C: I'm a dog mom.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Dog mom. Okay.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: So proud dog parent moments, though.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: I know you also have your dogs as well, so. But that's awesome. So everybody has that sense as well, of, you know, caring.
It's an interesting dynamic, you know, when you're looking after people and you have those proud parent moments, whether you're actually a parent or not or, you know, regardless, you're in a spot of caring, you're in a spot of consideration that some people will never see or will have in certain seasons of their lives.
Jody, I would love to hear your response now about, like, certain. Certain things that you've seen, like people having to learn, relearn. What are those misconceptions that people are getting when they come into the programs?
[00:20:40] Speaker C: Very similar to what they both have shared. You know, we just have to remember that we're getting people from all different age groups, backgrounds, you know, life experiences. So, you know, we may have the idea that somebody knows how to do these things, but they could have come from, you know, a home that was broken itself, you know, where they. Their parents didn't know any better. So. And they were in their own, you know, mental health struggles or addiction struggles, and they couldn't be there for, you know, to teach their children life skills. So we definitely see everyone from all walks of life and just remembering that some people just don't know and, you know, they struggle with emotional regulation. So maybe they get frustrated when they don't know something and they just want to give up. But we're there to kind of, you know, have it as a teaching moment where, you know, let's. Let's work through this so that the next time you're faced in a situation like this, like, you can do better and feel more comfortable about it.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: So when you see that level of dysregulation with people at times, as everybody said, it seems to be very human centric, very individualist approach to it all. But when you see that dysregulation, what are the certain things that you and your staff kind of work towards to, you know, take from dysregulating into more regulating?
[00:21:54] Speaker C: I think it depends on the situation. Like, the client's safety is priority. So if, you know, a client is in a situation that they could be harmed to themselves or others, like, their safety comes first. And then, you know, once they are at a ground level, then, you know, we go back to it and it's like, hey, like, where were you in that moment? Like, why did we get to this point? And, you know, is there anything that we can do to support you if, you know, you're starting to feel like that again? Because it's.
It's really just about their safety. And then, you know, once they go back out into the community, they won't have people with them 24 7. So it's important that they feel confident enough within themselves to handle those situations without returning to use big time.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: I really want to emphasize what you said there. Where were you in that moment? What led you here? That's huge. That's probably one of the biggest things when it comes to recovery of any kind. What it not just the moment that people might see as the issue, but what led to that point. Because if you don't break the habits that led up to it, how are you going to be able to really help and really make an important life change out of that?
So, you know, I already asked Brittany a moment ago. You know, she was talking about her experiences. We were talking about before the mic. You guys have not dealt with substance abuse yourself, but you've dealt with. With it with family members, and I'm sure that's impacted you guys a lot. Jody, I want to start off with you. And then, Curtis, we go on to you got. Go on to you with that. How did your personal experience with it with a loved one impact the level of care that you are offering today?
[00:23:31] Speaker C: That's a lot.
I am. I'm someone who has grown up in an environment, you know, fueled by alcoholism.
So coming into this field, I didn't know what to expect because I wasn't as educated as I thought. And then once I started working with people, I started to realize, like, how layered mental health and addiction was and how it does affect the whole family.
It took me a while to work with women because, you know, I didn't process a lot of stuff within my personal life.
So there was a lot of transference that was going on within me. And, you know, I had to do a lot of supervision on that because I couldn't figure out why I was getting so frustrated about certain things.
But, you know, I've. I feel like I've gotten to a much better place with that. And so now I. Instead of holding, like, resentments towards mothers in my role as a clinician, I was like, you know, I. I always felt myself saying to any mother that I was working with, you know, what about your kid? Instead of me knowing that I'm not working with the kid, I'm working with the mother, you know, So I. I had to work a lot through that, and I feel like I'm in a much better position now. So I. Now that I work with only women and work with, you know, family courts and stuff like that, I feel like I. I come with it. I come to these Situations with a perspective as an adult child of an alcoholic, as a clinician, a social worker, and, you know, just thinking about the family as a whole instead of, you know, like my own personal stuff coming through.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. That's, that's very deep. And it's interesting what you said there about the perspective of being like, hey, you got to think of the child. That's still very important. But it's also, but then how you recognized, hey, I'm not dealing with the child, I'm dealing with the mother. It's like the same circumstance. You can't pour from an empty cup. And it's like what they say about being on an airplane. You got to put the mask on yourself first before you can put it on somebody else. So that is, it can be a very bitter pill to swallow to really understand that. So thank you for sharing that with us. And honestly, I wish I had like hours with each one of you guys individually to get in all this, but I want to make sure everybody gets a chance to speak. Curtis, would you like to talk about how your history with it has impact, how you've cared for others now?
[00:25:53] Speaker D: Yeah, so I mean, my entire family use drugs. Parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever. You know, I'm a 70s baby. So back then it was, you know, I got to see how the opioid and heroin epidemic kind of transitioned into the crack epidemic, etc.
[00:26:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:08] Speaker D: And although I never had, you know, my own history of using, I decided to sell drugs.
And I too was a, you know, the career path that I'm on now 27 years ago kind of fell in my lap as a resident in a old school therapeutic community back when, you know, they would make you sweep the sun off the roof and scrub tiles with toothbrushes. I was a participant in that kind of program.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Interesting.
[00:26:32] Speaker D: In this area, I was like the first drug court participant before drug court became a thing.
And even back then, like my friends and stuff thought I was a snitch. Like, how could this guy who's a four time felon get a drug program instead of going back to prison kind of thing.
And it got to, you know, when you're in, in the facility six months or so. Back then there was a program called Vested, we know it as Access VR now.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[00:26:54] Speaker D: Where you would get to go to trade school. And they were offering computer classes, nursing assistant, culinary and Daytop. The program I was in offered an internship for those, those select few who they felt had what it took to, you know, complete the program and they would hire you as a counselor. And my thinking back then was, well, if I go to school and take a trade, there's no guarantee that when I'm done, someone's gonna pick up and hire someone. Before drug convictions on the record, I decided to go to route of doing the internship, and that was back in 1999. And here I am. Wow. So when I say it kind of felt. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer everything happens for a reason.
But that opportunity kind of fell on my lap that way, you know, and my family then, like, even my mom, when she passed away 20 years ago, she was 30 something years clean, you know, so she eventually found the path, as did my stepdad. You know, I reconnected with my biological dad, who I hadn't seen in 36 years, back in 2018. So.
[00:27:49] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:27:49] Speaker D: I take trips out to California to see him every year now. So things kind of came full circle, you know, but it was also a way of me to give back, you know, kind of learning what not to do for my family, you know, because they put their hand on the hot stove doesn't mean I have to go burn myself that way. I mean, I made dumb decisions and did other things, but they kind of all taught me, like, what not to do as far as that path, you know. And there was an old timer many, many, many years ago who told me, you have a knack to be a teacher. And, you know, I kind of blew it off. But I guess, you know, working in this field and doing the things that I've done for the last 27 years, I guess, to some capacity, I have been a teacher.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Without a doubt. You have been. Yeah.
[00:28:31] Speaker D: I know it's a little cliche, but that was kind of how everything unraveled for me, and here I am, you know. Yeah.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: I don't know if it's really cliche. This sounds like a very unique and interesting story. Before I move on to Brittany here, it seems like a lot of your story is, or at least in your present is about reconnection. You mentioned how you're reconnecting with family. You're reconnecting with yourself, and reconnecting with the sense of, you know, coming to terms of who you are and who you will be and how you present yourself as this maybe not stereotypical teacher. You're not at a elementary or high school or something, but you are a teacher.
That concept of reconnection, how do you think that applies to the people that you're helping? With today?
[00:29:08] Speaker D: Well, they're all. They all face the same kind of dilemmas we do, especially those that are in treatment now, that may be parents.
A lot of them try to avoid it out of shame, out of guilt, you know, just not knowing if they're going to be accepted or welcomed back in.
And that scares them, you know, so we do spend a lot of time trying to help them identify the importance of reconnecting, you know, the importance and the significant piece that family plays and support altogether, you know, because some of them, if they had it their way, they would just, you know, mosey on through and not make those reconnections because they're still dealing with a lot of that shame.
Once we unravel that and get them to start feeling a little better about themselves and them understanding, you know what, you have a safety net to fall back on. If it doesn't go according to plan, we can process it, we can talk about it, we can, you know, help you get through to the next time around. They're pretty receptive to it. And, you know, for that reason, they tend to, you know, want to jump in or at least, you know, take a step in that direction. Not for all, but for some, it works. You know, just being able to understand that, you know, what, I'm living proof, you know, and I have no area sharing my story. You know, sometimes when they're able to confide in someone that, you know, they look up to, that they trust, and to hear that you have a similar story, it's enough to motivate them, to kind of get them to take that next step. So, you know, I have no issue sharing, you know, what I've been through and the things that I've encountered throughout my life, that's going to help them get to the next step, and so be it.
[00:30:31] Speaker A: That's great, and I appreciate you sharing it with us here. You know, that's one of the main reasons why we're doing the show that, like, whoever might see this, whether through a clip or the full podcast episode or whatever, maybe they can see something in themselves out of any of these discussions and hopefully it will help them with their path, whether they're a colleague of yours or whether it's somebody who's in recovery or whatever that might be. So, again, thank you for sharing that, Brittany. I want to toss it back over to you. We've been hearing about Jody and Curtis's story, and, you know, now we're kind of in this theme of reconnection based off what you're hearing with Their stories. Is there anything that's really hitting you and impacting you that you want to share, kind of fitting along those themes?
[00:31:08] Speaker B: I mean, I think reconnection is a really big part of the recovery community.
So. And by that, I mean, like, anybody and everybody who's. Who's willing to, like, listen to be part of it, right? So it could be family members, it could be friends, it could be, you know, you had a history with, you know, this legal involvement, now you're reconnecting, or you go back and see your dad, or just community members out there who have no history, a connection to it, but have seen a love to want to give back to their own community.
So I think that's where we get into this really big umbrella of the recovery community. And that could be anybody and everybody. Whether you have experience with it or not. Sometimes people, maybe you just have a soft spot for it. It's like, wow, like, these are people, you know, everybody always, you know, you kind of. I shouldn't say everybody. You hear this kind of like, oh, it doesn't happen to me. I don't know. You know, it wasn't this. Right, but statistically, you know, everybody in this room knows at least 10 people, right? So, I mean, statistically, at least one person is going to be affected in some way, shape or form, Right. Even if you want to get to that six degrees of separation type of thing.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: At some point, you're connected to somebody in the recovery community, Whether it be a direct connection or a pretty extended one. But at the base of that is the reconnection thing, Right? He's getting everybody back together for that. No matter what your background in is it is with it, or if it's something little, or if it's maybe even just something started as like, you saw a news article or you saw this or you saw that, or maybe you're just driving down the street and saw somebody who didn't look so well on the corner, and now you're just like, I want to know why. I want to know how to help. So I think, like, that's where you just get into this, like, the community connection part.
And then that kind of just brings everybody together, Whether it's direct experience, personal use experience, or family use or whatever the case may be, it's that reconnection on any and all levels that really is like, kind of what brings everybody together. And that's why the awareness and education piece is so, so important.
[00:32:59] Speaker A: Absolutely. No, and I appreciate you sharing that right there. And something that you Said talking about is like, more than likely you're going to know somebody in the recovery field one way or another. That six degrees of separation. And as I said, by the time this episode airs, this day would have passed already. Black balloon day.
That's for the people that unfortunately didn't get the help or if they were, it wasn't enough at the time, or it was too little, too late. Whatever we want to say, unfortunately, the ones that passed on, I'm sure each one of you guys has dealt with either a client or somebody close in your lives in regard to that. I know I certainly have. So I just want to give you guys a chance. Each one of you will go down the line.
What is it out there? You know, imagine somebody's out there. A mom and dad of somebody who lost somebody or a family member or a best friend.
What is it that you would like to try to communicate to them? To somebody who has lost a loved one to substance abuse? Brittany, would you like to start?
[00:33:56] Speaker B: That's a. It's a tough one, and I hate to. I mean, I guess it's kind of the cliche, but it's like you're not alone.
[00:34:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:02] Speaker B: And that's one of those things. It's easier said than done. Right. You know, it's like. It is. It is. But I think taking that step to get out of isolation, because often that's what has led our loved ones, our family, our friends, our community members to step towards substance use. And some who we do lose to overdose. Right. Is there some level of isolation or something happened to them?
And sometimes, unfortunately, they are intentional, sometimes hurting very badly, and sometimes they were unintentional. Right. It was, you know, unintentional overdose. And, you know, it's just. It, you know, it happens. Right. So there's. There's such a big spectrum, but I think people have an opportunity to realize, once again, reconnection. There's the community, right? There's lots of resources. There's lots of groups out there. There's lots of education and advocation. And some of the biggest advocates in this community that I know are people who have lost loved ones who've lost their kids to overdose, you know, and I'm also on the Mark foundation board. Yes, we have. We. Mark Foundation. We. I take pride in it.
Overdose memorial.
Massive, beautiful overdose memorial behind Gold's Gym.
[00:35:15] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:35:16] Speaker A: I used to work there. Yeah, so I've seen it.
[00:35:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really beautiful. And the Mark foundation has put a lot of time and money, and Gold has been very Gracious to give us that space. But there's bricks. You can get customized bricks in. In there. And when you go over there, it's just. It's beautiful in that, like, bittersweet way to see all the names, but it's like, you know, those people aren't being forgotten. And I had. I had a brick placed, and I just did it in general for anybody who has been lost to overdose, whose names might not be spoken again because maybe they didn't have family or friends. So I very intentionally had my own brick.
I wrote up something really very me style, you know, about being, you know, under the light of the moon and never being forgotten, no matter who people are. And I think that's really important to know that, like, there's always somebody out there who cares.
And, like, you know, if somebody. I can't tell you how many times I just randomly start talking to people, and next thing you know, they're, like, telling me all about this, and I will clear my. Even if I don't know who you are and you're a stranger and you just need support, like, I will be there.
And I think there's tons of people in the community who will. Who will be there to do that, and it's. It's really nice. So I think it's just a matter of finding that support.
But nobody's ever alone, even if you feel like it. It's just sometimes it's a little bit of work. So I always hope that people who are willing to step out in front do that just so we can help the people who feel isolated.
[00:36:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I hear you on that. Funny what you said about clearing the schedule, you know, working here. I've already met some fascinating people, you know, on all ends of the spectrum. And something that really impacted me the other day was there was a lady who was just looking for the bathroom here. She was a client, and I could tell she was very emotional and she was crying, and I just asked her and was like, are you okay? We ended up talking for, like, about an hour. I hugged her multiple times. It's like, I gave her my card. I gave her. We swapped contact info. I don't know if I'll ever hear from her again, but I think that hour of time ended up helping her. I like to think.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I. I absolutely believe it does. I. I think people. You know, it's kind of like just random acts of kindness that could have. And, you know, and maybe I'm taking it too far, but that could have been the thing that maybe that's what changed her entire trajectory of her day.
[00:37:23] Speaker D: Maybe. I don't know.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: There's. There's plenty of times where I'm sure all of us at some point have, like, given time to somebody and that somebody is voiced like, hey, I was not having a great day. And the things could have gone the other direction if it wasn't for somebody taking two seconds to care about me.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: So, like, I think even, you know, like, just walking by, someone being like, hey, nice hair.
[00:37:41] Speaker D: Right.
[00:37:41] Speaker B: You know, just. Just the tiny. Oh, I like your shoes. You know, random acts of kindness, I think, go so far.
[00:37:47] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: You know, and it's like, human connection.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: I had a moment back in college, actually, where I know that it was the moment that turned somebody's life around, because I was at a party in college. And, you know, we're all at college, we're all getting drunk. We're having a fun time at this house party, and I. I'm talking to this guy who's one grade above me, and somehow he gets into conversation with me. He was like, dude, I'm drinking every day, and I'm not liking this. Next thing you know, we're sitting on the edge of the tub in the bathroom together, he's crying, and I'm. I'm drunk myself. I don't know what I'm doing or what's going on. I really don't remember much of that conversation other than the fact that we had it months later. He came to me and he says, like, khan, I don't know if you remember that conversation, but that really was, like, the stepping off point. And I haven't touched a drink in a while, and it's like, wow, that's incredible. And it's beautiful that I was a part of that. I don't know. I think anybody could have done what I did in that moment. I just happened to be the one person, but I'm happy to be that one person for them.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: But you still were the one person.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: That's all that matters. It doesn't matter if somebody else could have, because maybe somebody else couldn't have. Maybe you were the person. Yeah, don't. Don't discredit yourself for that.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: No, I say I was in the right place at the right time for them. That's. That's the way that I look at it. And I'm grateful that I was there for them in that case. They're getting married now, so. Yeah, no, I'm very, very happy about that for them.
Curtis. I Want to hear your response now, for anybody out there who, you know, know somebody who's lost somebody in your case, if you've lost somebody in this case, what are the words of wisdom or solace or whatever that you would like to add to this discussion?
[00:39:15] Speaker D: Just. That is very real. You know, I've. I've lost two clients in the last two years that, you know, were granted successful completions and then moved out.
[00:39:22] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:39:22] Speaker D: And died of overdoses shortly thereafter.
You know, we've tried to roll out within a division over the last year. Like, we've identified the importance of family involvement while, you know, residents are engaged in treatment. And it was a little disappointing that we didn't have the turnout to move forward with it.
I think, you know, I'm seeing two different sides from family. Either they're in denial that there's a problem altogether, or they just. They're just tired to the point that they don't want to be bothered anymore.
And therefore, they're not really educated. You know, the saying, if a person shows you they are, believe them.
Not enough families believe that addiction and substance use is as real as it is, and therefore that engagement that support the involvement because we can only keep them but so long, eventually they're going to go back out into the real world. And if they don't have that support and those components of resources aren't in place, then they're doomed to repeat. And that's just reality.
So I would say definitely pay attention to the signs.
You know, we talk about, you know, this world of recovery and resources. A very vast but very small world. You know, you. You are guaranteed to. You don't know how many former clients I've worked with, whether it was Dutchess County, Orange county, whatever, that you end up running into again.
And it is a beautiful thing. Just a really quick true story. A couple of years ago, I met Woodbury Commons, and I'm waiting for a friend of mine who we can't take anywhere. He has to pee, like, a million times.
You know, I'm standing there with all his bags, my bags. And this guy is, like, giving me this grill. He's staring me, and I can't back down, so I gotta stare back.
And he walks up to me and he's like, C.P. and so now my guards come down a little bit. That was my old nickname. And I. Yeah, he was like, oh, my God. And he gives me a hug and he says, you probably don't remember me, but you were my counselor about 15, 20 years ago when I was A knucklehead. And I want to thank you because you saved my life. And, you know, he told me his name. He told me that he owns a brownstone in Brooklyn. He's doing real estate, married with children. And, you know, once we got to talking, I kind of remembered who he was after the fact. But, you know, this was again, 20 years later, and this kid remembered me, you know, so it was just a reminder. And, you know, Jody and Brittany will tell you it could be a very frustrating job. You know, it's. It's a lot. You know, it takes a very unique person to do what we do and show up every day and put our own stuff to the side to be able to service these people and the staff that are working underneath us.
Little things like that, though, kind of get you through the day, get you through the moment. It reminds you that you're doing something good and worthwhile. So those are like, you know, rewards that, you know, internally I could say, all right, you help somebody, you touch somebody, you made a difference. And that's what keeps me showing up every day.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: Wow, that's a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that right there. Those are the moments that, you know, I think we all like to hear. Hopefully somebody out there would like to hear, and, yeah, that shows you're making a difference. Hey, I. I have no background in mental health. I'm a guy with a microphone. But, like, here I am trying to have these conversations with you guys, and I'm so grateful for how open y' all are about it, and hopefully we are helping some people with these discussions. But I can tell you right now, each one of you guys are miracle workers here, and everybody you work with here are miracle workers, and I'm so grateful for that. Jody, I would love for you to say your piece right now in regards to, you know, the people that have been lost, and if you have any similar stories of, like, what Brittany or Curtis have shared.
[00:42:40] Speaker C: So I think it's important for communities to recognize that, you know, when we hear about, like, overdoses and stuff like that, like, these are humans, these are families. These are, you know, people who are struggling. And I feel like sometimes that gets lost in translation because there's still such a stigma around addiction.
So I think prevention is. Is something that should be spoken about more.
And, you know, like, Brittany and Curtis have both said, you know, like, there is community with, you know, the clients that we work with and, you know, people that, you know, we see come and go to just reach out, you know, whether. Even if it's a family member.
I. I will share that. I did have a client while I was over at.
At Dowling House who did, you know, unfortunately, overdose. And she passed away. But I kept in touch with her mom. You know, like her mom would call me. I mean, obviously when it first happened, it was much, much frequent. More. More frequent. But further down the line, you know, just to kind of see how she's doing, you know, because I wish families would be more involved with, you know, our clients treatment. But, you know, they have their own stuff that they have to work through and sometimes they're just not ready to. To deal with certain situations, even though our clients are, because they're. They're working on it. So, you know, just. It sounds very cliche and you know, I know it's very difficult for people to reach out when they are struggling because addiction is so isolating for everyone involved.
But, you know, we're here to listen. I don't have to say anything, you know, I just listen to what. Whatever it is that you got to spill. And you know, if you need a hug at the end of it, I'll give that to you too, you know, but sometimes that's really all people need.
They don't realize how many people can connect with their story until, you know, they actually share it. And it doesn't feel so isolating anymore.
[00:44:38] Speaker A: No, absolutely. I've had a number of, you know, friends my age unfortunately passed away for various reasons. Some of them because of drugs, some of them not. But you know, I try to keep up with their family members. It's not always easy to do. Life gets in the way sometimes. I wish I did more at times, but you know what? Like, I remember in the very beginning it was a lot of, you know, how you feeling about this? What's. And we're just sharing stories about the person that we lost.
And now with a few of those situations, we're several years out.
Their name may not come up, but, you know, it's in our spirit. But it's also just nice to be like, hey, yo, I started a garden now. It's like, that's awesome. I'm so happy to hear that. Or something along those lines. Or oh, we're planning a family trip and we're getting the aunts and uncles together. It's like, that's so cool. You know, Though the loved one's name might not explicitly be said.
You can tell just that the heart and the love is still there. And it's how, you know, it's being transferred onward and it just goes to show is like, you know, life does move on and that's what we got to do and seeing how those people move on. So that's beautiful what you're saying about keeping up with that client's mother and just being there. We've been on this episode for a while. I'm not going to hold you guys up and keep you guys captive this entire afternoon, but I feel like we could be here for hours talking about things here. On your best you. I always like to ask everybody if they have any last little nugget they'd like to share. Whether it's something that's already been said you want to reinforce or something that hasn't been said yet.
I've been trying to be good, giving even time to everybody. Does anybody like to start off with their last little nugget?
[00:46:05] Speaker C: I would just say that, you know, somebody has a very similar story to you and you can find yourself in somebody's story. So it's just important to have these conversations.
[00:46:14] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: Thank you, Jody. Curtis, do you have anything?
[00:46:16] Speaker D: You know, I mean, in today's day and age, I think it's definitely more prevalent that, you know, it's common to speak about things like that. Whereas like growing up it was not normal to sit down and be educated on drugs or street life or whatever with parents or adults in general.
So I would just, you know, encourage open lines of communication, whether it's a loved one, a little brother, a little sister, whatever.
Education is key, big time.
[00:46:40] Speaker A: Thank you, Curtis. Brittany, do you have anything you'd like to add?
[00:46:42] Speaker B: This is something I tell my clients all the time, is every day, if you focus to be 1% better today than you were yesterday, not asking a lot, not asking for anything to change, but just 1% better than you were the day before.
And however you want to achieve that is up to you. But if you just kind of live by that, eventually those things start compounding. It's like interest, right? You know, it starts compounding. So this one little percent here, this one little thing here eventually all adds up. And you know, those random acts of kindness are important.
So maybe that 1% better today than you were yesterday is complimenting somebody. Or if you see somebody looks down, just like asking him, like, you know, and I always try and remind people, like try and use open ended questions not do you need anything? Because most people are going to say no. They don't want to be a burden. It's what can I do for you? Right. Let them, let them give it as a One word answer. But try and use those open ended questions because it makes people feel heard, it makes it not feel, it makes it feel a lot more genuine. Right? Because if it's just like, okay, like, yeah, do you need something, you hear that so much or you hear like, okay, I'm sorry. And it kind of just ends it. So, you know, even if you're really, really rushing and your day is super busy, if, follow your gut, if you feel that you need to like ask somebody, like, what can I do for you?
You know, let's sit down and talk, let them tell you no, but like take, take that time because there's, there's really nothing in your day that is so pressing that you can't give someone five minutes. Because that might be, and it might just be somebody who needs a resource like, hey, I have, I have no idea where to start. And it might be like, hey, I don't know, you know, I don't know the answer, but I hope I need the answer. Yeah, you know, so I think it's just that, you know, using that 1% better and just taking the time to, to really, you know, if you're going to offer somebody your time, be genuine about it, not just be like, okay, like that's cool, like great, use your story. Like, you know, take the time. If you're going to offer, take the time.
[00:48:36] Speaker D: Yeah, you know, without a doubt.
[00:48:39] Speaker A: Guys, thank you so much for being here. I will free you guys from being hostage of the studio. Enjoy the rest of your afternoons. Again, if you want any more information about the programs that we mentioned here today or MHA in general, go to the description of this episode and we would be more than happy to help you out. We'll have all the links, contacts, etc. In the description. Again, hope that you have a wonderful day, wonderful week, and as always, be your best.
[00:49:00] Speaker B: You have a good one, Sam.
