Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Hey there everybody. Thank you very much for tuning into your best you Mental Health America's podcast on real conversations about mental wellness, brought to you in part by the Northern and Southern Dutchess Community Coalitions. And we have ourselves a Champions for Mental Health segment. Yes, this is our segment for when it comes to our Mental Health for Athletes initiative. How we are diving into the athlete and identity in regards to this segment right here. And this is going to be a fun episode. Today they joined us for our first coaches conference that we had back in the spring and we're really excited to have them on for this podcast to go even more in depth. So with us, we have members of the Kevin Love Fund. If you're not familiar with who Kevin Love is, he's a professional NBA player as a power forward and center, five time all star and Olympic gold medalist, best known for his time on the Cleveland Cleveland Cavaliers and where he won a championship and is currently on the Utah Jazz. Besides all that, he is a mental health advocate and people who are a part of that fund and on his team. We have Lucia the athlete, program specialist, and Sarah, co director of education.
Guys, Lucia, Sarah, how are you doing?
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Well, happy to be here. How are you doing?
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Doing good. It's so good to have you guys again. It was so nice getting to meet y' all back in the spring. I think it was a fantastic time and we're excited to keep doing more and more stuff with you guys. Before we get into the weeds on everything, could one of you or both of you just give a little overview on what exact the Kevin Love Fund is and what are you guys doing in the field of mental health?
[00:01:36] Speaker A: Of course, we're both very happy to be here and the Kevin Love Fund gave us a great opportunity to kind of help be in this space of advocacy for mental health. But Kevin, thank you for giving him such a nice introduction. And I want to just add that several years ago, I think it was in 2017. Lucia, is that right? He was obviously incredibly successful on the court and he had a panic attack, a very public panic attack during a televised game and had an opportunity to either kind of put a spin on it and say it was a physical problem or not address it. And instead he chose that moment to kind of be the change he wanted to see in the world and really was vulnerable about his struggles with mental health at different times in his life and explained that it was a panic attack and what he felt had brought him to that, to that time and place. And he wrote a letter in the Players Tribune that was published called Everyone is going through something you can't see. And the support he got from having that article published kind of inspired him to create this fund because he realized that so many people were feeling the same way that he was, and everyone kind of thinks everyone else is okay. And so he really took that responsibility seriously and created this organization, this nonprofit that now. And I'll let Lucia talk about the Athlete program specifically. But this program, we kind of came together. Educators like my. Myself and Ellie Foster, Dr. Ellie Foster came to the table with him, as well as scientific advisors, psychologists and psychiatrists, and then eventually sports psychologists and psychiatrists. And we all talked about what we wanted in schools and on youth athletic teams, what we wanted those young people to know about their mental health and how to be mentally resilient and strong. And we created lessons. We created an entire curriculum from elementary school to college for young people to learn how to navigate their emotional emotions and talk about mental health.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Important stuff. Fantastic. And the presentation that you guys gave at the coaches conference really was enlightening. A lot of people were walking away saying how powerful that was, and hopefully we can dive into what people can expect. And should people be inspired by this podcast, hopefully collaborate and work with you guys even more? So, Lucia, do you want to kind of step in and talk more about the athlete program specialty that you have?
[00:03:59] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. So, you know, a few years after doing this general curriculum with students all over the country and now all over the world, because we're in 26 different countries, we really realized that working still with teams and athletes through this general curriculum, that we really wanted to narrow in on the athlete experience and what they are needing support with, what athletes are needing support and coaches from all levels. So we created this Athlete Program. I myself am a former collegiate athlete, and so I knew from my own experience kind of what I needed support with, what my sisters needed support with, they were all collegiate athletes as well, and peers and friends I would talk to. And we just realized we weren't really having these conversations within athletics. But Kevin, being one of those leaders, kind of started to change that, that culture within sports where we can talk about these things. And now it's even being heavily encouraged to be more preventative and really take care of your mental fitness and performance to feel better, you know, overall and also perform better on the field and on the court. So we created four lessons that we have now, working with our scientific advisors, as Sarah mentioned, sports psychologists, sports psychiatrists who work with all, you know, professionals in different leagues across the country. They work with Division 1 programs across the country. They work with Team USA at the Olympics. So they're really renowned and just really great in their field. And they kind of donated their time and expertise and knowledge that we could co create these lessons for athletes of all ages and coaches to have these tools around navigating performance anxiety and your identity as an athlete. And the story that Kevin shared that everyone is going through something you can't see. So athletes are all. All have a story in one way or another. And we can really bring these conversations into the locker room, into the film room before practice, and kind of sprinkle them in throughout the season to take care of our athletes and then build this trust with our coaches and athletic staff that we can depend on them and go to them when we need that additional support.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Obviously, we're going to be training our muscles, we're going to train our endurance. But one of the biggest things about sports, regardless of what sport that you're playing, the resilience, the willpower, and just the overall mindset that you have. That winning mindset. Winning mindset is not just simply getting the win, getting the w have it in the stats. It's a matter of showing up, doing the best that you can with what you have, regardless of whatever that might be in a given moment. And when you don't have that spirit or the willpower, the resilience behind you, that's when the body will shut down. That's when the performance will shut down. That's when you're going to have all these hard times. So if you don't have up here, when you're out there on the court, field or wherever, if you don't have up here, you won't have everything else performing with you right there. Definitely want to dive further into that, but I don't want to get too far away from the coaches conference again. You guys joined us back in the spring for this. We had a packed room full of coaches and athletic directors here from all over the Hudson Valley. It was really an impressive day with all the speeches that we had and you guys kicked off with your presentation there. I just want to know what kind of takeaways did you guys get from that coaches conference? Obviously, I've had the opportunity to speak to a lot of the coaches there and hear a number of things that they had to say. But what are takeaways that you guys got from interacting with all of them?
[00:07:03] Speaker C: So I think what I really took away and noticed was that we get to do this every Single day on Zoom because we're our team spread across the country and it works so well doing these trainings and these sessions with coaches and athletic directors. But we kind of rarely get to be in one room with so many athletic staff, you know, at a time. So it was really incredible to, I think, get the in person feedback and just see how they would even react to listening to each other's stories because we did an activity together. How vulnerable they were willing to be amongst their peers, which is very scary as adults when the culture has been for so long to not talk about your mental health, especially, especially amongst coaches and to try to, you know, tough it out and put on a game face. So for me, it was really powerful, I think, to see these coaches who have been around for so many years and so successful, willing to kind of lean in and try this new type of way of talking about our well being and our mental health and our personal stories and bringing that into a room with all these other professionals who they may be competing against or competing with and to be very open and to try to learn a new skill set in order to support their athletes. And I think we also had a lot of people up to us after the training just saying how excited they are to bring these lessons and how at first they were kind of hesitant and nervous about it, but now they feel more equipped to, you know, have these conversations with their athletes. They now see the importance of it. They can really feel the difference. So that was like one of my biggest takeaways and I'm excited to be in a room with everyone again this fall.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Yes, November is going to be a great time and of course that's going to be happening at Mount St. Mary's College this time. We're very excited to be there, have you guys again and have some new folks as well. It's going to be a great time. Sarah, do you have anything to add on from your experience back in the spring?
[00:08:38] Speaker A: I mean, I would just add, and I couldn't have said it better than what Lucia just said about how coaches and athletic staff now seems to care so much more about the mental health in addition to the physical health. I was just inspired by the community there. I felt that they cared about their athletes in this holistic way that I had really not seen. Being like a Gen Xer. I certainly didn't see that when I was a young person and I wasn't on sports teams for, not just because I was more of a sensitive soul, but also my athletic ability. But I loved seeing these Kind of tough, high achieving coaches and athletic directors care about the people that are trusting them with their careers and their lives. So I was very inspired by the level of care that I saw in that room.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: For sure, it is inspiring what happened in that room, what happens out on the field. And it's inspiring what you guys are doing. The different programs, teachings, lessons, conference that you guys are doing to spread this message, it's very important and it fits very much in line with what we're doing here at mha. So let's start getting into the nuts and bolts of it all. Obviously there are certain little things that you want to keep in your pocket. That's part of your trainings, that's part of your business and everything. But when it comes to these trainings, when you are doing these zooms, when you are doing these presentations, when you are handing out educational material, what does that look like and how is it normally presented to schools, teams, et cetera?
[00:10:06] Speaker A: I can start it off by saying that there's no like secret sauce to this curriculum. And I think what makes us feel so lucky to be doing it is Kevin's generosity allows us to give this curriculum for free.
So we're not gatekeeping something, anyone that reaches out to us. As long as you're a non profit or a school or various different organizations that are just doing this work for free themselves. Our curriculum is free. We have a one hour virtual training like Lucia mentioned, that's very easy to access because we have a staff that's willing to work around school and nonprofit schedules. Or if an organization can pay to have us fly out there and pays either a speaker fee or a travel fee, we can come do work with you in person. And once we do this one hour virtual training, any athletic director or coach or educator or counselor has access to our digital platform which has now over 20 lessons. You can use the entire curriculum as social emotional learning program or a mental health program in your organization, or you can pick and choose what lessons work for you. And we have lessons that are 10 or 15 minutes that are meant to be in the locker room or on the field. And then we have longer lessons that can be very connecting and team building. So we've, we've. And I can let Lucia, you speak to a few of the different organizations we've worked with. But we've been doing this now for over five years with the outlet program and it's been really so fun and successful.
[00:11:28] Speaker C: Yeah, so I was gonna say that we work with, you know, school sports teams and nonprofit organizations that do like after school sports programs, but also different club teams, rec leagues, so many different organizations and sports teams and clubs that we work with in different levels too. But what I wanted to touch on and kind of go deeper on is the training that and like what people can expect. So as Sarah mentioned, we do normally this on zoom virtually. It's free, accessible to around their schedule. So we've done them, you know, at nighttime, very early in the morning. We really want to make it accessible for all educators and coaches. But it's also very exper.
We, you know, go through all the different lessons from all the curricula that we have, elementary all the way through collegiate level. And then our athlete program. We touch on the research behind what this foundation is built off of and all of the curriculum are built off of. And then we also talk about, we also go through, I should say, one of the lessons from our curriculum. So if it's an athlete training, we normally pull one of the lessons from the athlete program, for example, our more than our more than my sport lesson, and we'll demo the lesson. Participants will actually get to participate and do the activity with us, will share with one another. So it's very bonding as well, which is really great. So if a coaching staff comes in, for example, and they want to do the training together, they also get to do this vulnerable activity with one another and build this kind of team culture and bonding that they can then now use that lesson with their athletes. So we love to do it as like professional development, but also as a regular training that the coaches can then take the lessons and use them with their athletes and feel comfortable doing so.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Terrific. I think that's great. And it definitely opens up a lot of doors to be able to have even wider and broader conversations, ones that they probably didn't expect that they were going to have in the first place. So obviously a lot of scholastic teams, nonprofits, as you said, have you seen any of these programs be used actually within the classroom, say, like in PE classes? Or have you seen them at like summer camps per se or moments like that? Because I could see this being in a lot of different rooms more than just what people might think are the stereotypical ones?
[00:13:25] Speaker A: Yes, yes to all of your questions that you just asked. And those are good ones. We, you know, Lucia mentioned vulnerability. So the key kind of pedagogy of the lessons we do is this idea of a trusted adult in the classroom or in the locker room working with youth. So in all of those ways, after school programs, summer camps, we do have these lessons taught in all of those. In all of those forms. And we try. We know how stressed and stretched thin educators and coaches are these days. And so we really try to take away the prep work. And we've tried to really make it very simple. The one thing we do ask the trusted adult in the room to do is to model the creative activities. So to truly be that person like Kevin, who goes first and shares a story doesn't need to be the most difficult story, but it needs to be a story that's shared in an age appropriate and intentional way. And so in that way, summer camps, after school programs during the school day and advisory periods are really across the. Across the whole school day. We've had various teachers, from PE to health classes to business teachers or math teachers.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: Yeah, math class.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Yeah. We had a business and math teacher from Cal Poly teach this. Teach these lessons and incorporate it so they can really be kind of sprinkled into whatever you are teaching.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Oh, that's terrific to hear. Math class. Not where I thought it would have been. Terrific nonetheless.
Oh, I love that. So, Lucia, one of the lessons that you said that you brought up as an example is more than my sport. And right there, that's like one of the biggest things that we're trying to do here with the Mental Health for Athletes initiative here in New York because. And hopefully beyond. But one of the biggest things about it is the whole identity behind an athlete when, especially scholastically, so much of a student's life can be that sport. And when something happens, you know, whether it's health, whether it's family, whether it's scholarships, whatever it might be, something gets in the way and your identity is rocked. So many people are really shaken by that. A number of people who helped start this had a very similar story in that way. So Lucia and Sarah, too, this is open to you, but let's dive into that more than my sport lesson in particular. I think that would be good for a lot of people out there.
[00:15:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think Kevin really said it best in his players trivia. In a lot of his interviews, he'll talk about how when he was really struggling, he tried to achieve his way out of kind of the mental state he was in. So he tried to achieve his way out of his anxiety and his panic attacks and his depression. But we realized his basketball wasn't the answer to that. It kind of infiltrated this safe space that he had. Once he had that panic attack, which was the court, and once that panic attack occurred, it really. Everything kind of came crashing down. And like you said, what we are really trying to do with this lesson and with the work that we're doing in this space is to be on the preventative side. So have these conversations before you retire from your sport or you're injured unexpectedly and now you're sidelined for the whole season, or you're going through a transition and, you know, transferring schools or whatever the case may be, academic probation, behavioral probation, there are so many reasons. Or maybe you're not starting anymore. You used to be a starter and now you're on the bench. So whatever the case may be, we know that every single athlete at some point in their career is going to go through transition, even if they go with no injuries by the time you have to retire at some point. So no matter how old you are, you're going to go through this phase where it's very difficult to now all of a sudden have this thing that you had your whole identity baked into suddenly kind of ripped away from you. And so we're trying to navigate or help, help students, excuse me, navigate this transition and be very proactive about it and realize, you know, I'm not. Yes, I could be this amazing athlete and this can be a big part of my life, but that's not all there is to me. I'm also an incredible friend. I am a really good student. Maybe I'm very passionate about art and music and that's very different from my athletic side. Maybe I really identify with my cultural background or the religion I believe in. Whatever the case may be, there are so many other facets to ourselves that we're not just this amazing athlete, but we're so much more than that. So this activity that we do during this lesson really helps athletes explore that and face that question early on because it's really hard and I had to do this. It's very hard to be confronted with that question after your sport is taken from you. So if we can do that on the front end of it and try to incorporate some of these other interests and passions that we have alongside our sport. Data also shows that athletes actually perform better when they have this balance of, yes, I'm an athlete, but also I enjoy these other things outside of my sport. And we also see their well being improve because it's not solely tied to the performance of how we're doing on the court or on the field that day. What we really want is like this healthy separation. So this lesson really helps coaches and athletes kind of start to do that in a safe and easy way. There's like a sentence stem that they can follow, a prompt. It's just very approachable and I think, but also yet very powerful. And so we really. We really love this lesson, and we definitely use. It's probably our most popular, I would say, out of all our whole curriculum.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: I can see why it's a powerful one. And indeed, it's fascinating what you're saying. Like, you know, the more well rounded somebody is, the better that they'll perform. You have multiple different skills that you can take from everything, and the more that you have, the more experience, the more that you're going to be able to bring forward in whatever that might be. And I think that's extremely important. So, you know, for myself, I remember I had a very tough time in high school. It was my senior year, and there was some family obligations and some health stuff that were going on that I had to step back from playing varsity lacrosse. And that was my senior year. And I remember going to my coach and telling them that I was done. And I was like, I was in tears, man, I was shook. I knew I wasn't going to be playing sports forever. But, like, oh, my senior year, that means a lot to a kid, and it meant a lot to me. And Lucia, you said, being a collegiate athlete yourself, and you said how tough it was being presented with that question of moving on to the next thing and quote, unquote, retirement of whatever that might be. What was that like for you at the time? And how is working with the Kevin Love Fund help you address that years later as well?
[00:19:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it was really difficult. I actually experienced something very similar to Kevin's experience with a panic attack. I started having panic attacks my sophomore year of college. The first one was in the middle of a game. Luckily, we were playing in Southern California, where my parents are located. So they were actually at the game and able to. To take me to the hospital. But I really thought, I just like Kevin, that I was having a heart attack, that I was dying. I really did not know what was happening to me. And the doctor told me, you know, this is a panic attack. Do you know what that is? Have you ever experienced one before? And I had never experienced that before, but it kind of continued after that. And it was really difficult to navigate these changes in my body and my brain, along with navigating the pressures of balancing, of course, school as a collegiate athlete and then keeping up with, you know, practice training and all those types of things. So it was really hard to navigate that in the first place. And then to know that, that I eventually left my sport. And that was kind of a major reason why I think my body just kind of gave out and I could no longer handle all of the turmoil it was in. And so to kind of unexpectedly be walking away from my sport when I had two years left, that was really difficult. Like you said, no one's ready for it in the first place, even when you have like a healthy retirement. So then to have one cut, you know, short your, Your career cut short. I was definitely not prepared. I was not having these conversations whatsoever with people or teammates or friends. So it was really hard. I. I went from being, you know, collegiate athlete to then, no having that sense of community. Once I left, I had to navigate being kind of like a normal college student. You don't have that team environment around you. So it was really difficult. But it also did inspire me to go into this line of work in the first place. So I actually read Kevin's letter in the Plagiaris Tribune, and that's what I really resonated with, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, it's very crazy. To now be working, you know, for his foundation. I noticed I was like, wow. By him sharing his story. I felt less alone in what I was going through. So I really tried to do that just in my day to day life with my teammates, my, my sisters, my friends, peers, people who would talk about what they were going through. And I realized the more that I would open up about it, the more others would open up and return to me. And I always tell this story of how I had a football player in one of my classes. We wouldn't really talk much, but he randomly kind of came up to me after class one day, was asking about this season, and I said, oh, you know, I actually left my sport. I was really struggling with X, Y and Z. And he said, oh my gosh. He's like, I have been so depressed for the last year. He's like, you're the first person I'm telling. I've never told anyone this, but I've really been struggling and been contemplating on leaving football. And he's like this like six, five, huge guy. Like, just never would have expected him to talk about this. The more I did that with people from different sports on my campus, they were all sharing very similar stories. And so I knew that with Kevin's story, there was something very special here. And I actually wanted to start my own nonprofit. At the time around Athlete Mental Health. Ended up working for NAMI here in San Diego, working with high school student athletes, which is amazing. They were trying this pilot program and through them I actually met the Kevin Love Fund because I was going to use their resource with our high school athletes here. And so it's been amazing to join the team at the Kevin Love Fund. Kevin's story, obviously is very personal to me and very, very much so helped me during my difficult time. And it just really showed me what, you know, I've kind of really based a lot of what I incorporate into the program based on my experience, the experience of teammates and peers that I've talked to in the past and currently, along of course with the research and all the focus groups that we conduct with athletes around the country.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Impressive, all of that. It's crazy when everything kind of trickles down and you see all the ways that we are a lot more similar than we are different. You know, I was experiencing some really bad panic attacks myself. I remember one in particular during lacrosse practice back in high school. Funny enough, we didn't know they were panic attacks at the time. We thought it was heart related, just as you said. Just as Kevin said. And I didn't learn it was a panic attack until well after too. Like I was getting heart scans done and getting.
[00:23:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I did.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: I did too.
[00:23:14] Speaker B: And it was such a crazy thing. Obviously, like looking back now, it's like, oh, it's so obvious now. But like at the time, no, it wasn't. And you know, myself, my family, as well intentioned as we were and trying to be on top of all the things, we didn't have the vocabulary, you know, we didn't have the, the right tool belt, the right vocabulary to help us out through that. And it was definitely one of those things is like truly more than your sport. And I don't think Kevin probably ever imagined being more than his sport, being the head of a foundation like this. But that just goes to show you, you never know where life's going to take you. So, Lucy, I appreciate you being vulnerable and talking about your story there. I think that's great. Now, Sarah, you said a moment ago you really weren't necessarily in sports yourself, but now you found yourself in a very sports centric organization.
So what was it that brought you to the table here and what was it exactly that you were able to relate to, weave into this world?
[00:24:13] Speaker A: Well, I was brought in as an educator and as the person who had been teaching and on the front lines with young students. And I love that question. I don't think I've been asked that on a podcast but first I just want to say, Lucia, I think it's so inspiring that you really shared your story because we work with so many young athletes who have a quick end to their athletic career or their student athlete careers and it's just does really rock their world. So I think just like Kevin's story inspired you, I think Lucia's story is going to inspire so many young people. So I just think it's, it makes me feel so inspired myself to listen to you speak, Lucia.
[00:24:52] Speaker C: Well, I also quickly wanted to add, the only reason I really kind of went there was because Connor went first and shared his story, which like, I like, I know I do this work every day and it's what we teach other people, but I naturally once you told your story and experience, I was like, like, oh yeah, I can share mine too. Like, I didn't even have that on my mind right now. So thank you, Connor for starting us off. Yeah.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: This is what happens on these things.
[00:25:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: And I'll just say that I kind of did something similar in an educational way, which is I had been a fifth grade teacher and I haven't told this story in a long time, but I had done nonprofit work in Los Angeles before the Kevin Love Fund. And I had been a fifth grade teacher and I wanted, I worked with kids that were from all over Los Angeles that were kind of busted over an hour from there home neighborhoods to kind of get a better education in the magnet system in LAUSD in Los Angeles and wanted to help them feel better about themselves so that they could then start to focus more in school and pay more attention in their academic classes. So I had brought in one day my old journals from when I was young, I was 30 at the time, and I brought in like a stack of seriously 35 or 40 journals that I put on my teacher's desk and said I filled up up every single one of these journals and I kind of thumbed through it and then I said to this group of like 35, 10 year olds, I said, I'm now going to hand you each a black and white composition book and I want you to try to write in these and if you want to share them with me, leave them on the desk. And if you don't want to share them, keep them in your desk and I will never look. And the very first day I did this, one of the young men in my class put his black and white composition journal on my teacher's desk and I read what he had to say. And it was the first time I he had ever shared his emotions and his difficulties. And it created this bond between the two of us. And he actually inspired me to start the nonprofit that I had started in Los Angeles. So I love that through kind of the front lines of working with students, I saw that if I was the trusted adult in the classroom and went first, and mine was the tool of writing, that other people in the room would then feel welcomed to do this as well.
And so it was. And Dr. Ellie Foster, who's the other co director of education, was part of a 10 year longitudinal study where she studied exactly this. So we are lucky that we've been able to have this be a very evidence based, scientific backed curriculum.
[00:27:13] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: That is, that's crazy to hear about your journals and being able to share in that regard too. Like here you are commending the two of us on sharing our stories, but here you are like taking these journals out. It's like that is such a powerful physical representation, representation of it all. And I can imagine that was a very powerful experience for the kids. And even if it was just the one kid who came up to you, I'm sure there were more. But like that one kid in particular who inspired you because you inspired them.
Full circle. Beautiful moment right there. I think that's lovely.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: It's a great ripple effect to kind of go first and then other others will join you as we see.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's fantastic. So I want to actually piggyback on something that you said, said much earlier in this discussion, Sarah, how you were saying how from the Gen X perspective, how it's like I didn't see anything like this. You know, I'm curious. Obviously we're talking about working with the kids and making sure that the kids have the right environment for them. But what kind of reactions or even pushback have you guys seen from generations who may not be used to this? I'll admit right now, my grandfather, he was an athletic director, a coach, all that.
By today's standards, he would have been locked up many, many times over. He would be in prison. He was the very tough love, throwing basketball at kids heads, putting just craziness, craziness. So that being said, you know, what kind of pushback have you seen from maybe say, Boomer, Gen X, hell, even millennials?
[00:28:42] Speaker A: I don't know if we have pushback from millennials, but certainly from Gen X and boomers. We would have. But I would say that Lucia mentioned before that we had these very experiential trainings. I think what helps is there's always. And I would have been this way too, as a mother, you're always a little bit nervous to invite certain topics into the classroom or onto your team, into the space, because it feels, sometimes I think, like it's opening this Pandora's box. And then what if a kid really needs the help and shares something that's hard for you to handle or becomes overwhelming? Or sometimes educators and coaches wonder, if kids open up, will other kids keep that. That privacy in that space? And so we have worked with our scientific advisors, who are doctors of psychology and psychiatry, who have helped us to create kind of standards, a ways to tell the people delivering this curriculum to help them deliver it with fidelity and create a safe space. A lot of the people that are delivering this are mandated reporters. So they do have their own system of when to share what needs to be shared for additional support. But we also have found that once the kind of the older educators or coaches that might be more concerned once they do the activity and see that it's a structured, creative activity, that it's within. It's within a writing prompt or within a music playlist or within a collage or a comic strip, visual art, that it does kind of create this structure or container for kids. And what you share usually is how the kids respond. So if a coach or a teacher does not want it to be the most difficult thing that the children are sharing, sometimes you can just share a less vulnerable topic or you have one of these expert videos or guest artist videos in our curriculum, kind of go first. So we've scaffolded this in a way so that you don't have to start with the most vulnerable lesson. Lucia, did you have anything you wanted to add to that?
[00:30:39] Speaker C: I was just going to say that I know Dr. Ellie Foster talks a lot about how by not talking about something doesn't mean that the story no longer exists or the topic or the challenge of what a student's going through. Like those challenges and stories are already in the room. So we are just inviting coaches and educators to start the conversation. And we also always say that. And Dr. Ellie Foster's research actually shows this. This is that we're not asking the coaches or the educators to all of a sudden be mental health experts and have all the answers for their athletes. What we're saying is that all they really need to do is just be a good witness to the student so, you know, be empathetic, appropriate in what you're sharing in return, and then referring them to the proper resources. And I always call it as like passing the baton. So pass the baton to the next person who does have that background and expertise and those answers for that student. But if you can be that first line of kind of like defense of just listening to the student and providing a safe space for them, for many people, that alone is kind of enough. They just need someone to listen to what they're going through. It may not be as something as serious that they're struggling with, but then there's other students that do need that additional support. And so we know that educators are kind of trained on what resources are available, you know, on their campus. And we always encourage the coaches that before they deliver any lesson, to have their resources prepared and talk about them very openly with the students. So not only just say, like, yes, we have a sports psychologist on campus. Like, that was kind of what was shared with me when I was an athlete. But tell them, actually, where is this room? Like, maybe you take a class trip, a team trip to the field trip over. This is where it is. Because I remember as a collegiate athlete, the very first week when you have orientation as an athlete, as a freshman, you're told where the athletic training room is, where you're supposed to get rehab. If you miss any of the physical rehab, then you can't practice or play, and you get in trouble if you miss an appointment. We need that kind of same level of focus on the mental health side. So, like, show the athletes where the sports psychologist office is. How do you make an appointment? We've actually talked to some coaches, like, for example, at ucla, the women's basketball coach, Coach Corey Close, who they just won an NCAA championship last year. I talked to her personally one time when Kevin was doing some work there, and she said, oh, we have all of our athletes on the basketball team go to one therapy appointment with a sports psychologist on campus. Just one, just two. To say hello, introduce themselves and see how it feels to sit in that office. And they don't. They don't ever have to go again if they don't want to, if they don't need it. But now they know where to go, how to sign up for the appointment, and they feel comfortable. They have a face and a name to who this sports psychologist is on campus. And we work with other partners, like at UW Madison, Division one program, Big Ten. Amazing. Their director of sports psychology, he and his team, they go to practices and they just stand there. They just hang out and talk to the athletes. They don't even talk about mental health and just become familiar. So. So I think that's what's really important in kind of like changing the narrative and just moving the needle and making this more normalized for older coaches especially, and for athletes too.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: And Kevin really helped lead this kind of movement where it's the mental health, like Lucia is saying, is being up leveled in importance to the physical health. And now it is more common. And you do want to have that mental strength, strength along with the physical strength. And so it's. It's great to see that so many big universities and sports teams, professional sports team, are caring so much about this now, right?
[00:33:56] Speaker B: Absolutely. What you guys are saying there, the familiarity, the face and name have a place where you know where to go. It's one thing to be like, oh, this resource is here. It's another thing to see it and to be able to conceptualize it. And especially, you know, here we have Kevin Love, who's been very open about his anxiety issues.
If somebody who has anxiety going to be able to necessarily just walk right in is like, I have anxiety, I need help. It's like, no, no. That's the whole point of having.
You can't do that. So being able to know where exactly you go, and it's like, oh, I remember that face. And you can be like, hey, I don't know if you remember me. I came through before. My name is. And that's such an easy icebreaker right there. And it makes a big, big difference in making that all happen. I'll admit, when I was in college was the first time that I was ever actually thinking that I might want any kind of mental health resource.
Just the inkling. And then, of course, my last year was in the pandemic. So the moment that I finally would have been open to doing it, because I never stepped in there before, call it fear, call it anxiety, call it naivete, whatever, the time that I actually needed it, none of it was around because the pandemic happened. So it was one of those things where I do wonder. It's like, I wonder how I would have been if I stepped in there sooner and would have started my mental health journey sooner.
So for anybody who's listening out there and who's questioning it yourselves, if you're questioning and thinking about your mental health journey and kind of starting in a certain direction. Start today. Start today is so, so worth it. So this question is for the both of you guys, and I'm curious to hear what you guys have seen. But based on the scientific research and based on working with students directly, what are common themes that student athletes are looking for from their leadership today. I know you mentioned before just having that first person to say something and be that sounding board. But what are certain themes that student athletes are looking for from their leadership?
[00:36:04] Speaker C: I think what we've noticed is that, especially with the younger generation, because it is more acceptable to talk obviously about mental health in general.
We've seen a lot of athletes kind of take charge. For example, Morgan's message is a great organization, and their athletes are leading the charge on their own campuses in creating these clubs on campus to talk about mental health because they found that they got so much pushback from coaches and athletic staff that they were like, you know what? We're just going to have the athletes kind of lead it, lead the way and start these conversations. And so I think what athletes are really asking for is for coaches to just open up the idea of having these conversations. It doesn't have to, again, like, have them be this whole mental health, you know, expert in the room and have a psychology session. Doesn't have to be such a long type of thing to take away from practice, but it could be something they could sprinkle in throughout the season and kind of be a more. More normalized, like, mental fitness training, for example. So I think what we've seen from athletes is that they really care and they're wanting to have the conversation. They're asking their coaches, like, can you go to trainings or workshops about mental health? Or can we start having these conversations as a team?
Can we watch a film or a clip of another athlete sharing their experience? I think they just want them to start having these conversations, and it doesn't have to be very big and scary. It can be very simple or just talk about the mental health tools that they can incorporate and then naturally sprinkle in a little bit of vulnerability. But I think on the other end of that, we've also seen so many coaches and athletic staff come to us for training because they say, my athletes are kind of like, demanding this of us and I. We want to meet them where they're at, so we want to meet their needs. They're saying, we want more mental health support from our staff. So we're here to do this training today, even though this is so out of our, you know, not up our alley. So it's been interesting. Kind of see both sides, like, the athletes taking the charge and really pushing, pushing their coaches to lean in, and then also the coaches either being forced to lean in or really lean in because they care so much about their Athletes so they want to show up for them in this way.
[00:38:05] Speaker A: I would just say that the themes that we try to give tools for takeaways for are things like physical ideas or tools that they can walk away with, like a game plan for their performance anxiety or the idea that they are a multitude of identities, not just a soccer player or a basketball player or a rower or a tennis player. And also the idea that every they are not alone, that they belong. I think that those themes are what we've tried to put into our lessons. So they're not just doing engaging creative activities and team bonding activities, but they are walking away with a mantra or a physical piece of paper that they can stick on the their bulletin board, back in their dorm or in their locker and have a plan.
[00:38:51] Speaker B: Something tangible, something that they can envision. Yeah. Something that makes sense to them and they can. Whether it is actually tangible or not. Whether it's like something they'll use.
[00:39:00] Speaker A: Yeah, something they'll use.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And that makes such a big difference. It's one thing to be told to do something, but given the right tools, instructions, game plan, whatever it is in order to do something, that level of instruction, big time help. Absolutely. That can be anybody, even just somebody who's trying to get back into their fitness. Like think of like New Year's resolution, you know, everybody trying to get back into fitness with the New Year's resolution. It's easier when you have that kind of game plan. Anything that you go out there and
[00:39:31] Speaker A: do and even, even the quieter students, even a quieter student or athlete that maybe is not participating as much in the moment. I've heard from parents after some of our workshops that their young athlete they see on their desk, they kept their performance anxiety, game plan, piece of paper did with us and they have it taped to their desk. So we've seen that it really has impacted young athletes.
[00:39:58] Speaker C: I'll also quickly add to that. We've seen that when the coaches and educators do our training, we've also had some people that they've come back around a few years later to do a training again with and brought their whole staff staff and they shared that they'll pull out of their desk. They still have the original writing activity that we did from years prior because it was so impactful for them. So I think we also have data on this too, that the lessons are not only beneficial to the well being of the students and the athletes, but it's also beneficial to the educators and the coaches because they're actively doing the activity alongside you Know the students and so they are practicing their kind of their own mental health tool using these tools, excuse me, and bettering their well being alongside their athletes and their students, which I think is really cool.
[00:40:39] Speaker B: That is cool. And that kind of goes back to what you were saying Sarah about like when you presented those journals to all your students at that one point. One of the best things about journaling is kind of having the opportunity to step back in time or at least view that perception of what was going on back then and be and really, really take in how far you've come. You know, it's like, wow, I was feeling this way and now I'm feeling this way. This really improved or oh, you know what, this kind of slipped. Let me do this again. I've done this before O really scared about this. But you know what? It reminds me of this one time that I wrote down and I did it then, I can do it now. There's so much to be able to take out of that. It's one thing to have the memory of it, unfortunately, we can always twist and contort our memories for whatever emotion that we're feeling. And it's another thing to go back and look at the record of it, whether that's to go back and look at the, looking at the practices and looking at, at all these forms that you guys are doing, looking at the journaling, whatever that might be. That's really cool to go back to. And you know, having something recorded like this, you can always come back to this episode and hear some of the lessons that we're talking about today. Guys, this has been a phenomenal, phenomenal podcast episode. I'm really excited for everything that we did today and I hope that it's going to help a number of people.
How can people get in touch with the Kevin Love Fund to one of you guys to introduce these lessons, curriculum, whatever that might be, get the ball rolling to work with the Kevin Love Fund.
[00:42:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I would say the best way to do it is to go to the kevinlovefund.org we have a learn more page under our education program tab. You just put your name, your email address and what school organization or team you're from and that'll automatically come to our inboxes. And we'll start the process of an intro meeting and then setting up a training. If you're interested in completing that one hour training over zoom. Again, it's free. The curriculum, all the curricula we have have, everything's free. And then ongoing support from our education team is free too. So if you ever want us to help out with planning a mental health day or a mental health game, or strategize which lessons would fit best with your team or your students, we're always available to help out in that way as well. And then I'll also add that we have public facing lessons on our website. So under our lessons tab we have a lesson for student athletes that we just launched last week in collaboration with nami. So that's amazing. And that's on there. We have several that we partnered with Sony Pictures Animation around Spider Verse and the movie Goat. And then we also have a friendship lesson, so we have so many available.
And then we also have a resources page for educators and students. So these are really vetted by our scientific advisors and anyone can access those resources at any time.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: We're also on Instagram and trying to put out very educational and informative posts.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: Yeah, well this will be on the Instagram. We'll be collabing on all the clips that we put out, so you'll be seeing hopefully these clips on all of them. That, that'd be fantastic. And of course we'll have all the links in the description of this episode so you won't have to go too far to try to find everything. Sarah Lucia, thank you so much for being on this episode of your best.
[00:43:41] Speaker C: You.
[00:43:42] Speaker B: I can tell that you guys are truly being your best selves and you're helping so many other people be their best selves as well. Thank you so much for being champions for mental health.
[00:43:50] Speaker C: Thank you for having us and thank you for this conversation. It flew by.
[00:43:57] Speaker A: Sam.
